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  Thursday, 08 April 2021
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Hello dear experts,

I'm new here and I hope my post is in the right category.

I have an old Yamaha PSR640 where its floppy drive already broken.
In my computer I have a very old Cakewalk Pro Audio 9.
So not long ago I bought a MIDI USB cable to connect the PSR to computer.

My question:
Is it possible to have the Cakewalk save the setting of the registration memory (4 buttons) which are in the PSR ?

Example situation:
To play a song "Waltzing Mathilda", auto accompaniment
RegMem-1 : right hand voice piano, rhythm Waltz variation A
RegMem-2 : right hand voice string, rhythm Waltz variation B
RegMem-3 : right hand voice flute, rhythm Waltz variation C
RegMem-4 : right hand voice marimba, rhythm Waltz variation D

To play a song "Mary had a little lamb", auto accompaniment
RegMem-1 : right hand voice organ, rhythm Polka variation A
RegMem-2 : right hand voice violin, rhythm March variation B
RegMem-3 : right hand voice trumpet, rhythm 8Beat variation C
RegMem-4 : right hand voice horn, rhythm 16Beat variation D

Before the floppy drive broken, I can save the registration memory for each song in a floppy disk,
then when I want to play one of the song, I just can call it back from the floppy to the keyboard
then when I play the song on the PSR, I can change the melody voice/sound by pressing one of that four buttons.

But after the floppy drive broken, I have to re-set the registration memory each time I want to play a different song.
So I wonder if it's possible to save the setting of each song as a file in the computer via Cakewalk,
where (maybe, if it's possible) I can send the data of the song's registration memory also via Cakewalk to the PSR before I play on the PSR.

Any kind of help would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you in advanced.
7 months ago
·
#8577
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Hello,

I have a few floppy disks, if needed I could send you a couple. But you should find someone to give you one?

I've looked at the data. I note that there are 15 separate Sysex messages, not all of the same length. There is NOT enough data here for Registration memory, maybe enough for the Initial Setup?

data is damaged. The first item and the last item (# 15) are the same. Odd
Item 6 has the 2nd byte as 4B, all the other items have this byte as 43 which is the Mfg ID for Yamaha. The 4B may be damaged data.
The items with the shorter data sets may have bytes missing?

The 3rd and 4th bytes are mostly 10 and 4C, which could be the Unit ID and the Device code, and the values may be correct for Yamaha devices, but why the data missing for some items (these could be a special SysEx code peculiar to this keyboard??).

I would certainly treat the data as suspect, even damaged.

Geoff
8 months ago
·
#8555
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Hopefully JohnG will reply, he's more the Yamaha Keyboard specialist.

NB.

It should be possible to fix the floppy drive, may be just a drive band gone.

Otherwise, you can still get suitable replacement drives. Just needs to be a DD drive, not a more common HD one.

Otherwise, you might investigate replacing the 'real' drive with a device that uses a USB stock (or SD card) to save disk images, but acts fully as a disk drive and appears to the keyboard as a disk drive. Look up re Gotek.

Final option, check out the SysEx commands in your manual and see if there's a SysEx command to save the data you wish. You may need to use the computer to send the message to DUMP the data (from the keyboard to the computer, and save the data like a midi file) then you could use a midi file (or SysEx again) to put the data back again as required

Geoff
8 months ago
·
#8560
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Hi Geoff,

Thank you for your kind reply.

To be honest, I'm trying to avoid to spend some money for this matter :D .

Final option, check out the SysEx commands in your manual and see if there's a SysEx command to save the data you wish. You may need to use the computer to send the message to DUMP the data (from the keyboard to the computer, and save the data like a midi file) then you could use a midi file (or SysEx again) to put the data back again as required


I've checked that the PSR has an option : MIDI ---> Initial Setup Send ---> Start Transmission ?

So in Cakewalk, I open the Sysx view window, then start the prompt to wait the transmission then in PSR I press "Yes",
I see it receive a data and after I click done, I inspect it, it contains something like
F0 43 10 4C 30 2E 05 19 F7 but there are many similar like that.

So I change the registration memory-1 in the PSR, for example from Tuba to String for RightHand voice.
But after I send the data back to the PSR, there's nothing happen in the registration memory.
I mean, the RegMem-1 still has RH voice String. It doesn't change back to Tuba after I sent the data back to PSR.

I think there is something missing which I didn't do ?

Thank you once again for your reply, Geoff.
7 months ago
·
#8565
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Hello,

OK, you've told the keyboard to send some data, and the data has been sent, and seen.

I do NOT know if the data you've sent - Initial Setup - is the data you need, i.e. the 'Registration Memory'. It may not be.

Are there other SysEx options?

The piece of date you've detailed contains 9 bytes in total. The first and last are the SysEx packet markers. At least 2 of the other bytes are SysEx info, i.e. the '43' means Yamaha specific, so there's not much else for the detail you need to save.

It would be a help if you could save ALL the data received as a file, and attach that file to your next message. How many different Registration memories are there? Maybe there is a separate SysEx string for each..

Did the software actually send something. If it was stored SysEx it might need a special mode to send data like that, as opposed to send data in a midi file.

Is there any indication that the PSR has received data. Maybe the keyboard needs to be in a special mode to receive SysEx?

Geoff
7 months ago
·
#8566
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I've been looking at the manual for this keyboard.

Couple of points.

I cannot be sure that the 'Initial Setup' data is the same as the 'Registration memory'. Also, I don't see any reference to accessing the 'Registration memory' via SysEx, but I'll keep looking at this.

The floppy drive on the 640 looks like a standard PC type drive, HD or DD, so you should be able to find a replacent drive easily. Any computer shop should sell you one. I've bought 'used' ones salvaged from an old PC for about £5. Apart from that, the drives are usually fairly robust, any problems are more likely to be a bit of dust in one of the sensors. Or damaged disks. When you try to use a disk, what messages do you get? Have you tried to format a blank disk, what message do you get. May be worth trying to get the disk drive working again?

Geoff
7 months ago
·
#8572
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Hi Geoff,
I'm sorry for my late reply, because I'm trying first to do this and that about my case before I reply you.

In this link, it prove a wrk file for an example of sysex data sent from cakewalk to Yamaha PSR-730.
So I download the file where in the list view of the file it has three sysex data value and one controller (CC94) value and some notes.
F0 43 10 4C 00 00 7E 00 F7
F0 43 10 4C 02 01 5A 01 F7
F0 43 10 4C 02 01 40 06 00 F7
CC94 value 127


I can hear something like reverb effect (coming from CC94 value 127),
but I don't hear a delay effect where the article say that I should hear this effect when the file is being played.
It's hard to know it is because the sysex data is meant just for PSR-730,
or it is because my PSR-640 is broken - unable to receive sysex data,
or maybe my PSR is not capable to receive sysex data.

Are there other SysEx options?

I think that "Initial Setup Send" is the only SysEx option, Geoff.

It would be a help if you could save ALL the data received as a file, and attach that file to your next message

Below is the data received by the Cakewalk after I click "Yes" when the PSR ask "Execute Initial Setup ?"
F0 43 10 4C 30 2E 05 19 F7 F0 43 10 4C 00 00 7E 00 F7
F0 43 10 4C 00 01 11 F7 F0 43 10 4C 20 42 08 F7 F0 43
10 4C 40 03 11 F7 F0 4B 10 4C 42 00 14 F7 F0 43 10 4C
5A 01 F7 F0 43 10 4C 07 03 F7 F0 43 10 4C 07 02 F7 F0
43 7E 00 F7 F0 43 7E 01 1B 1B F7 F0 43 10 4C 30 23 05
0A F7 F0 43 10 4C 30 2A 05 19 F7 F0 43 10 4C 30 2C 05
19 F7 F0 43 10 4C 30 2E 05 19 F7


How many different Registration memories are there?

There are four buttons where each button I can assign any setting (voice, rhythm, dsp, octave, etc) to it.

Maybe there is a separate SysEx string for each

Yeah, maybe like that. That's why it's not in the "Initial Setup Send" option.

Did the software actually send something.
If it was stored SysEx it might need a special mode to send data like that, as opposed to send data in a midi file.

This I'm not so sure.
In Cakewalk SysEx list view window, after I click the up-arrow button,
it show a progress window for about two seconds, where the window title is "Sysx Send".
But I think the problem is in my PSR, either it's broken (so it's not receiving the data) or as a factory default - it's not capable to receive sysx data.

Is there any indication that the PSR has received data.

No indication in the PSR panel, no error message - nothing.

Maybe the keyboard needs to be in a special mode to receive SysEx?

I've found the manual book for PSR-640 online, too bad I can't find if the manual has a guidance on "how to receive SysEx data from a computer's software".

I've been looking at the manual for this keyboard.

Thank you very much for your attention, Geoff.

I cannot be sure that the 'Initial Setup' data is the same as the 'Registration memory'.

The manual say about "Initial Setup" like this :
Transmits all current panel settings to a second PSR-740/640 or a MIDI data storagedevice.
If you want to have the song play back with the panel settings used for recording,
execute the Initial Data Send function before recording the performance on the PSR-740/640 to an external sequencer.


I've followed the instruction, after I record the auto-accompaniment (channel 9 to 16) from the PSR to Cakewalk,
in the Cakewalk's Event List view window, I do see some sysx data there.
But when I play it back from Cakewalk output to the PSR, it seems (I guess) the PSR ignore the sysx data
because during the Cakewalk playback I don't see any panel change in the PSR,
while in fact during the recording I change the Registration Memory button-1 to button-4.

The sounds heard from the PSR (during the Cakewalk playback of the recorded accompaniment) is different with the sound if I directly hit a chord for the accompaniment directly in the PSR. I think there's something already broken inside my old PSR-640 :( .

Also, I don't see any reference to accessing the 'Registration memory' via SysEx,

Me too :D

but I'll keep looking at this.
Thank you very much, Geoff.
I really appreciate your time to help me.

The floppy drive on the 640 looks like a standard PC type drive, HD or DD, so you should be able to find a replacent drive easily.
Yesterday I'm looking around some online shops in my country to check the price of the FDD. It surprise me the price is double than about 20 years ago :D. And the floppy disk price is even crazier, triple :o .

I've bought 'used' ones salvaged from an old PC for about £5.
In my country, that's the price for the new one about 15 years ago. :)

the drives are usually fairly robust, any problems are more likely to be a bit of dust in one of the sensors.
Or damaged disks.

When you try to use a disk, what messages do you get?

I suspect that maybe my PSR floppy drive is not broken, but the problem is I lost the two floppy disks included when I bought the PSR,
and I don't have any floppy disk right now, so I can't check whether the drive is still functional or not.
Except I buy a blank floppy disk which the price is so expensive. I'm cheap :).

Anyway....
Have you tried to format a blank disk, what message do you get.
May be worth trying to get the disk drive working again?
I think I will follow your suggestion.
Buy a blank floppy disk, then try it in the PSR floppy drive to see if it's still work or not ;) .

Once again, thank you very much for your attention, Geoff.
I really appreciate it.

If finally I decided to buy a blank floppy disk,
I will post an update to tell whether the floppy drive still work or not.

cheers.
7 months ago
·
#8577
Accepted Answer
0
Votes
Undo
Hello,

I have a few floppy disks, if needed I could send you a couple. But you should find someone to give you one?

I've looked at the data. I note that there are 15 separate Sysex messages, not all of the same length. There is NOT enough data here for Registration memory, maybe enough for the Initial Setup?

data is damaged. The first item and the last item (# 15) are the same. Odd
Item 6 has the 2nd byte as 4B, all the other items have this byte as 43 which is the Mfg ID for Yamaha. The 4B may be damaged data.
The items with the shorter data sets may have bytes missing?

The 3rd and 4th bytes are mostly 10 and 4C, which could be the Unit ID and the Device code, and the values may be correct for Yamaha devices, but why the data missing for some items (these could be a special SysEx code peculiar to this keyboard??).

I would certainly treat the data as suspect, even damaged.

Geoff
7 months ago
·
#8581
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Votes
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Hi Geoff,

I have a few floppy disks, if needed I could send you a couple.
Wow... you're so kind. It's a very nice of you and thank you so much. But....

But you should find someone to give you one?
Yes, I think I will buy one or ask my ex-boss in case she still has some blank floppy disk.

I've looked at the data. I note that there are 15 separate Sysex messages, not all of the same length.
There is NOT enough data here for Registration memory, maybe enough for the Initial Setup?
data is damaged.
The first item and the last item (# 15) are the same. Odd
Item 6 has the 2nd byte as 4B, all the other items have this byte as 43 which is the Mfg ID for Yamaha. The 4B may be damaged data.
The items with the shorter data sets may have bytes missing?

The 3rd and 4th bytes are mostly 10 and 4C, which could be the Unit ID and the Device code, and the values may be correct for Yamaha devices, but why the data missing for some items (these could be a special SysEx code peculiar to this keyboard??).

I would certainly treat the data as suspect, even damaged.
I feel so grateful that you want to spend times to examine the data.
But now I feel not comfortable, because after digging deeper and spend so much time in the internet, yesterday I've found an article which say that "using a cheap Chinese midi-usb cable won't send/receive SysEx data correctly". It's not just one or two but three different articles which say the same.

And that's me. I use that cheap Chinese midi-usb cable ;) .
So I think the highest possibility it is the cable which causing the received SysEx data corrupted and the cable is not capable to send back the data to the PSR.
I am very very sorry because I've already cause you a trouble, Geoff.

Some articles recommend to use a trademark midi-usb cable (such as Roland/Yamaha/M-Audio) which won't work without it's own driver. So it's not "just plug then you're good to go".
Maybe I will try to save some money first then buy that trademark midi-usb cable.

For the time being, I think I'm going to make a new post to ask about a port "to host" in my PSR-640.
I've already dig the internet about this "to host" port. But I'm unable to fully grasp it on how to do it step by step to connect the PSR to the computer.
So maybe I will make a new post to ask if someone in this forum had done it then I ask his/her guidance.

Thank you very much for your times, patience and kindness, Geoff.
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