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  • The MIDI Messages Forum  Ask and you shall receive

    The MIDI Messages Forum
    Ask and you shall receive

  1. Lee T.
  2. Getting Started with MIDI
  3. Friday, 02 February 2018
  4.  Subscribe via email
Greetings Humans,
Ok, so I had this desire to get back into MIDI after 35+ years starting with Roland Juno-60 to Juno-106 migration.
These were pre General Midi and I helped write an editor librarian for a mainframe computer connected by serial to midi
box I had designed and built.

Later in the 1980's I met a Kurzweil employee who help me get a piano module upgraded to the top of the line
KX-1000 Pro just before the Waltham warehouse was closed after sale of the company.

I found another editor librarian for DOS (Kurle) and a Librarian for Windows (Kurlwin) which was able to get it cryptically
working with Rosegarden on Ubuntu 10 years ago and more in 2017.

This year 2018 I got email from Roland and bought first General MIDI device , the Go:Keys 61.
It also has GM2 so I joined Midi Association here.

I flashed the January 2018 FIRMWARE Ver1.21 to use it with Scratch programming language but the Tech support could not provide the
MIDI Implementation documents for the Go:Keys like that I had used on the Roland JUNO-106 years earlier.
open Source to the Scratch Extensions could help determine some parts of the Midi implementation.

After asking the Kurle developer what it took to develop on system exclusive message dumps I decided to ask here for help.

Anyone here know where to turn next ?
  Groton, MA 01450, USA
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Geoff Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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Hmm???

I've just downloaded the manual, and had a quick look through it.

Basically, it mentions 'midi', but I don't think it's 'midi' as we know and love it??

As you imply (but omit to say explicitly) there is no midi information in the manual, no midi implementation chart, no discussion of using sysex etc, etc.

It looks to me (from my QUICK look) that this unit does NOT receive midi data in the usual way, and that therefore you cannot use midi to control anything. 'Midi' seems to be referred to ONLY regarding certain links with certain other devices, i.e. for Garage Bond, or with a mobile phone.

Furthermore, this keyboard does NOT seem to have any midi connectors, only bluetooth (although that MIGHT involve some midi facility, but seems not to).

The older devices you mention were designed/constructed to do things with midi, i.e. to be fully/totally controllable via midi from other devices. The Go:Keys seems to be designed for a quite different market, maybe as an add-on for Garage Band?

So - sorry - but this keyboard may NOT do what you are hoping.

Geoff
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Lee T. Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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The USB is also a MIDI connection and is recognized in Jack control and can be used with Qsynth / FluidSynth.
Also Rosegarden sequencer plays Midi files and in STUDIO setup it is found as a valid output device.

Roland calls it compliant so no drivers are needed.
The extension controls the LOOP MIX function as expected.

The source code is vague as to where it derives the values it uses.

Roland GO:KEYS ScratchX Extension has this stuff at bottom of screen that points to itself and this domain documentation for WEB-MIDI.
Roland is not listed (yet) in the list of manufacturers.


"GO:KEYS ScratchX Extension (source code) uses a web technology called Web MIDI API. For details, click here."

There are extensive references to MIDI so I would expect a table what is and is not recognized.
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Lee T. Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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Geoff,
Congratulations on being the top poster of all time having only registered July 2017.


Geoff
Registered on Saturday, 29 July 2017
2 Posts 103 Replies

Your response shows me there is a real need for a quality based MIDI community.
I should have done my research but felt the association name and work to date was worthy
of asking this question and expecting an answer from Roland.

I will be persistent and help those few that are here that "Basically, it mentions 'midi', but I don't think it's 'midi' as we know and love it??
"

Not the case !
MIDI is to music what ASCII is to the NSA database !:D

Found this blog entry that may have been posted for fun last year !
DOES MIDI HAVE AN IMAGE PROBLEM?
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Geoff Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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Aha...

Well, if RoseGarden will play midi files via the device, then I'd expect that other software should be able to do the same, so therefore the device DOES have at least some of the normal midi facilities.

Your note about 'compliant' and drivers is odd. Usually, the drivers may be needed to allow a particular machine to SEND midi information, because the hardware of the machine is nor normal, i.e. regarding ports used, IRQs, memory addresses, etc. Or it's needed to allow software to work with different midi cards, or select between, say, MPU-401 or USB or other options. This would not normally have any relevance to the connected device which is going to receive the midi data. Usually, a specific piece of software may need a driver, but with the driver, it can connect to just about anything. That's certainly the case with my various midi systems.

There are usually two aspects to the midi system information provided for many devices.

The first comprises the instructions for all the midi commands supported, and most of this is fairly normal and generally applicable. Some things can vary, i.e. the extra bank selecting commands.

The second aspect relates to a sort of 'memory map' of the device, and how you might use SYSEX commands to access that memory directly to do a range of specialised things, incl potentially construct/change sounds directly in memory. This latter will be dependant on how the device is constructed (in firmware) and this might not be possible - I've got devices where you can change nearly everything, and others where you can change nothing in this way.

Yes, any midi device OUGHT to have a 'Midi Implementation Chart', detailing what can be sent and received, channels, modes, controllers implemented, etc. This is a standard format. I think it's part of the midi specification that it OUGHT to be provided. EVERY device that I've got has one, even if it's limited because that's ALL the device will do midi-wise! Oh, I tell a lie! I have a Quadraverb unit, which DOES allow some degree of midi control, and this does NOT seem to have a MIC - however the midi facilities are VERY limited compared to most other devices that DO have a MIC!!

Geoff
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Geoff Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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Lee,

Thanks for the comment.

There are a number of things that I'd love to persue, but we should stay 'on topic' so here is not really the place.

Regarding - briefly - the image of midi, I'd say that if there is a problem, it's because people just don't understand midi. I've always found midi quite wonderful, partly because I fully realise that I'm using only a few percent of what CAN be done with it, if only I had more time/expertise/musical abilty.

Yes, there are a LOT of really CRAP midi files, but there are the occasional GREAT ones as well, and I keep the latter in mind as to what COULD be done with midi. Anyway, I KNOW that if a midi file is no good, then I merely have to FIX it!

Geoff
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Geoff Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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Lee,

Also OT, totally, but Sunday night I'll be watching Superbowl! Been interested in the game since 197?, and interested in the Pats since Steve Grogan was QB, but I'd be watching anyway regardless of who's playing, just even more so as the Pats are there - AGAIN!!

geoff
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Lee T. Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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Geoff,
Watched last moments of Super Bowl.
Enough said.

As far as MIDI, I agree and feel after learning it in the early days and building 25 pin serial to 5 pin DIN Z80 based box then porting "Ghost Buster" to play on Juno-106 using DEC Vax 11/780 mainframe I feel I understand MIDI more than many.

I have a Yamaha PSR-160 and couple Kurweil K1000 devices so I was interested in a USB General MIDI 1.0 to make fair sounding presentations.
I now see and downloaded GM 2.0 and WebMidi so pleased with these discoveries.

Now want to find what NEW tech Go:Keys can do.
The code on Github reveals (SCRATCH experimental) the MIDI to "LOOP MIX" commands.
I also got the Scratch 3.0 HTML5 rewrite running offline as fas as it is developed.
MUSIC extension uses MIDI Note values to play MP3 ASSETS that are modified for tones.

Attached is screen showing conflicting NOTE blocks.

Some discussions talk about Scratch 1.4 compatibility which was last time MIDI was part of code.

Got to go so find me on GITHUB or SCRATCH forums and we can delve into off topic pursuits.

Lee T. Davy
Cool Games Network
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