The MIDI Forum

  1. Bhavya
  2. MIDI Software
  3. Thursday, 29 March 2018
  4.  Subscribe via email
I own a digital keyboard of CASIO. It is having 17 sets of percussion instruments. Now the problem is when I create a midi drum pattern, it is played by the first set, i.e. , Standard Set 1(It has all sounds of GM). But if I have to play it according to another set ( Ethnic set or Indian set) , is it possible? I believe there is some roll of bank set , is there?
I tried another method. I created a midi file in the keyboard only using that sound but it created a midi file of type 0 and in its own format. If i turned it to midi type 1 , it played the sound like grand piano instead of percussion. So I tried to convert it to type 1 and without editing I converted it back to type 0. Now, I saw that the hex of both files (which was intended to be the same) was completely different.
I have attached both files. I you open the attached file, it will play like piano or strings since it is a sound patch of CASIO CTK-IN series and not a gm sound set.
Both files attached sound same in windows but hex is different. Tell me what should i do.
Attachments (1)
Comment
There are no comments made yet.
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
0
Votes
Undo
Hello,

Well, I've got your file, extracted the two midi files, and converted them both to .TXT so they can be studied/compared more easily.

BEFORE does not use Running Status, therefore there are more bytes of midi data, as use of Running Status means that most of the Command Bytes are not needed. This difference seeme to explain ALL the difference in file sizes.

Otherwise, both files contain 495 lines of text. I would guess that the data lines are the same *Apart from the parameter numbers, which have been changed - i.e. bank codes, instrument numbers, parameter data.

I attach the two .TXT files I have created. There is a fair bit of explaination in the file anyway. These files may help.

I will look further at the data myself. I will try playing the files. I do NOT however know what the instrument numbers might be for your Casio, unless some may be GM standard. With all the Bank stuff some parts may be GM2?

I'll get back to you.

Geoff
Attachments (1)
Comment
There are no comments made yet.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MIDI Software
  3. # 1
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
0
Votes
Undo
Thank you Geoff. You are very helpful for me. Thanks a lot.
Comment
There are no comments made yet.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MIDI Software
  3. # 2
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
0
Votes
Undo
Geoff I have something to add. I have converted the before.mid to type 1 and then back to type 0. This plays the file on my keyboard as I want(ethnic set). Actually I opened the before.mid on fl studio 12 which automatically converts it to type 1 and there is no option to save it as type 0.That file is not played according to my want.
Comment
There are no comments made yet.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MIDI Software
  3. # 3
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
0
Votes
Undo
Geoff I got something. I got MIDI implementation manual for my model. My model is CTK 6300 which is same as CTK 6200. The manual has detail about info I want. But I can't understand becuase I am a newbie. I will be very helpful if you help me. I will attach my file.
Attachments (1)
Comment
There are no comments made yet.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MIDI Software
  3. # 4
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
0
Votes
Undo
Hello,

I don't know what you want me to do with the midi implementation data. However, it's interesting to see. There are a number of provisions in there that are more (better ?) than usual. Incl what looks like organised ways to change the parameters of an instrument in real time via midi (without having to resort to SYSEX).

What WOULD be more useful regarding your immed problem would be the instrument selection details, but maybe I can get at that info myself via the web. I'll look and let you know.

I've tried playing the two files, just using a little player. I may try more complex things as well.

Firstly, I now see that there's a mass of setup/Controller/etc data in the files for channels where there are no notes. I see note data for Channel 5 ONLY, and not very much at that.

The midi files look similar, but the BEFORE file plays nothing, and appears to my prog to be 8 seconds long ONLY. I think I hear a brief click/ping, then nothing. AFTER plays for quite a few seconds.

Both files show the same instruments/channels.

I've checked the .TXT file, and I see no reason (that is obvious) why BEFORE should finish so quickly.

I can answer one question for you. When you play both files via WinDoze, you'll be using the MS virtual synth (which is supposed to be crap ?) and both files will resolve to the GM soundset and come out with the same thing (whatever channel 5 is set to) I assume that when you play on the Casio, at least one of the files is getting the right casio sounds (NOT, I assume, part of the GM soundset). The other may be trying to get something else, but the Bank/Instrument numbers are wrong.

Very interesting, anyway.

I'll keep playing.

Geoff.
Comment
There are no comments made yet.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MIDI Software
  3. # 5
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
0
Votes
Undo
Just to confirm, I've tried another midi player, and this plays BOTH files correctly.

Meaning with the set GM sounds, i.e. 'Slow Strings' patch on Channel 5.

As there are no other note events, most of the other midi data is irrelevant.

Just for my own information, I will try to work out why the first player prog seen BEFORE as having no notes, or maybe is getting the timing wrong so it plays everything instantly?

Geoff
Comment
There are no comments made yet.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MIDI Software
  3. # 6
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
0
Votes
Undo
I've downloaded the Appendix - this comprises the chart of the sounds/instruments available.

I note that the structure of this chart seems to be GM2.

I will have to work my way through things, and try to determine what the two midi files are doing regarding the different values for supposedly doing the same thing.

Note that when the file is played as GM (as opposed to GM2) then the PC (Program Change) instruction may be the ONLY part activated, in which case the sound will be wrong, although somewhat appropriate. The idea is that GM2 midi files SHOULD play through a GM system, and most of the instruments would end up as something from the same group even if not the correct ACTUAL instrument. Backward compatibility! Does it always work out like that, though???

Geoff
Comment
There are no comments made yet.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MIDI Software
  3. # 7
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
0
Votes
Undo
After some further digging, here's something that doesn't make sense, and could be something to do with your problem.

Both midi files are in fact the same here, so if they behave differently it's due to something else.

As already noted, all the notes are on channel 5. There are no other notes, on any other channel.

Percussion would normally be on channel 10. You COULD put it on another channel, but channel 10 is the usual place for general compatibility, and most machines, when set to system defaults, would have percussion set to channel 10. I'd expect that GM2 would follow this convention.

In both midi files, there is no Program/Instrument set for Channel 10, which ties up with this being for percussion, and for the default percussion set. There are, of course, no notes set for channel 10!

Channel 5, where the notes are, shows Instrument settings as Bank Select MSB is 78 (hex) 120 (decimal), LSB as zero (i.e. I assume not relevant), and Program Change 31 (hex) 49 (decimal). BUT, that bank number is actually selecting 'Ethnic' drum set, and that bank does nothing selecting for a regular instrument. If you ARE trying to select Ethnic Percussion set on Channel 5, then you need the MSB value as 120 (decimal, which it is) followed by a LSB of zero then a Program Change of 50 (decimal).

So, maybe you've tried to set the percussion as channel 5, and it's not quite right. It may or may not work, depending on how the keyboard defaults are set.

NB - when dealing with the literal numbers, watch out. Often tables/charts show the real (?) number, i.e. 1 to 128, but the midi file shows the code number which is always one less, i.e. 0 to 127. Depending on software, etc, these can get mixed up. So, regarding the channel 5 example above, where one place 49 (decimal) is used, and in another place 50 is used - should these be the same?

Geoff
Comment
There are no comments made yet.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MIDI Software
  3. # 8
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
0
Votes
Undo
Hey Geoff , I am a lot thankful to you. But do tell me that how did you convert that file into text? It was lot easier to understand that file. I will now try to solve this and tell you about my findings.Thanks a lot.
Regards,
Bhavya
Comment
There are no comments made yet.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MIDI Software
  3. # 9
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
0
Votes
Undo
Geoff I am really sorry to say, but I think you didn't got my message. The both file I attached are now working! I wrote about this above. The problem is with my fl studio (my daw software). It opens the file, converts it to midi type 1 and this is when problem appears. I got to know that my keyboard can play that file even in type 1. But the fl studio is making some unwanted changes in my midi file. I am attaching you again a zip file which includes a BEFORE.mid which is absolutely fine and AFTER.mid which is saved by fl studio and is creating problem.
Bhavya
Attachments (1)
Comment
There are no comments made yet.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MIDI Software
  3. # 10
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
0
Votes
Undo
Geoff I got info from my CASIO support manual. It was written that to target ethnic set, program change should be 49 and MSB should me 120 (LSB is 0 in every case). Can you tell how to do this?
Comment
There are no comments made yet.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MIDI Software
  3. # 11
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
0
Votes
Undo
Regarding the last question, you need a Bank Select controller MSB of 120 followed by a Bank Select LSB of zero followed immed by a Program Change of 50. According to the chart. The chart seems to provide data on the basis of 0 to 127, so the numbers I give should be the numbers to appear in the midi file. Some software may expect the PC value to be entered on the basis of 1 to 128, and the software will then take one off the entered value and put the result into the midi file, but that is not consistent with what you say the manual says. You could try different values for the PC, until one works. Leave the MSB as 120 (decimal) as that seems to be consistent.

In the .TXT files I sent, the values in brackets are the hex values for the midi data in the midi file, literal and unmodified. Note the data there.

I'll have a look at the latest files you've sent, but I know nothing about fl-studio and I don't want to get involved with that.

There is no reason why the software should convert type 0 file to type 1.

What MAY be happening is that when you load a midi file the software will convert the file into it's own format. If it is loading a type 0 file, it may split the data into separate tracks as per channels used, but I would expect it to ASK about this. Then, when it later saves the data back to midi file, it might automatically save as type 1 file to save the spread data, although it OUGHT to allow an option to save as type 0 (creating a more compact file, and allowing better use of Running Status).

From the point of view of playback, there should be no difference between Type 0 and type 1 files. Fl-studio may be messing with more than just the file format?

Regarding the .TXT files, I have a set of DOS programs from the early 90s called Midi Tools by kevin Weiner. These include the progs ENCODE and DECODE. DECODE creates the .TXT from the .MID file, and ENCODE converts the .TXT back to a .MID file. The .TXT file could well be edited and the .MID recreated. There are also similar utilities for converting between Type 0 and 1 .MID files.

Geoff
Comment
There are no comments made yet.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MIDI Software
  3. # 12
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
0
Votes
Undo
Regarding the latest .ZIP, the two files are now completely different.

The BEFORE looks like the earlier file.

The AFTER is MUCH changed, the order of data if different, there are text meta items inserted, and *** NB all Bank Select commands have gone. These changes are surely NOT something FL-STUDIO would do on its own??

Geoff
Comment
There are no comments made yet.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MIDI Software
  3. # 13
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
0
Votes
Undo
Thanks Geoff a lot. I now believe my problem is solved. And about fl studio, I didn't touch a single thing in the file. I just imported the file and saved it. It doesn't has any option for program change. Can you recommend a software for program changing?
Comment
There are no comments made yet.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MIDI Software
  3. # 14
  • Page :
  • 1


There are no replies made for this post yet.
Be one of the first to reply to this post!