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  Friday, 08 May 2020
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As some of you may be aware, I'm trying to transcribe Beethoven's 3rd Symphony into MIDI format. I'm currently almost halfway done with the 1st movement, so I'll be preparing the 2nd pretty soon. In the opening bars of the 2nd movement, there are a few techniques I can't figure out how to emulate. Firstly, I don't know how to contain one measure within merely a position of an 8th note in a 2/4 time signature (3rd symphony 2.png). Second, I don't know how to mimic grace notes into a MIDI file (3rd symphony 3.png). This can be shown in the two images mentioned, which are found in the zipped folder attached to this post.

In the meantime, I'm aware that there's the complete 3rd Beethoven symphony on other sites, and from midiworld.com I downloaded both the 1st and 2nd movements that someone else did in MIDI. But in the 2nd movement, it appears that the sequencer kept the first measure as a full one, and avoided the grace notes highlighted in the double bass part.

Is something like this possible to implement using a MIDI sequencer? I use Anvil Studio.
2 years ago
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#5304
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Hello Marcus,

I've downloaded the bits you've just sent, and I'll see if there's anything else.

But, initial thoughts. What are you using to play back the file? If the setup you use uses a fairly standard double bass sound, which would have a pretty slow attack, then the notes (pretty short duration I'd expect) might be to short to register any actual sound. If you want to hear them, you might need an alternative sound. If you need to check that the notes ARE sounding, put a PC (Program Change) in just before to set something like a piano (short attack) and then set the db back after the notes. If you do now hear something, then it's the envelope of the sound that's causing the problem. Oh, another possible solution might be to TEMPORARILY increase the volume for those notes?

Geoff
2 years ago
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#5303
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I recently discovered something.

As one can see in the zipped folder attached, I've done the first five measures of the 2nd movement to Beethoven's 3rd, as seen in the MIDI file titled "symphony_3_2_(nc)daitch.mid", but the notes don't look quite like the ones in the first five measures of the other file, titled "beets3m2.mid", which I downloaded from midiworld.com.

My discovery was in finding that the author of the latter MIDI file did indeed try to emulate grace notes in the double bass section. I overlooked that, because I was unable to hear those grace notes in the file.

Now I'm wondering how the author of that file managed to squeeze in any of those grace notes, also looking at the one in the violin section.
2 years ago
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#5288
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Hi John,

That's what I thought it meant, although I don't know exactly how to use that feature.

--Marcus
2 years ago
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#5284
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Pickup bar translates to pickup measure, i.e. an anacrusis.
So, Anvil has a command that allows a measure with just a few notes, not the full measure to be created.
Try it.

JohnG.
2 years ago
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#5281
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Hi John,

Sorry for the late reply. Anyway, what's a pickup bar and what purpose does it serve?

--Marcus
2 years ago
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#5261
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In e-mailing Tom of Anvil Studio he pointed this out to me (see below) which I wasn't aware of.:
How to insert a Pickup Bar
2 years ago
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#5255
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Hi John,

Thank you, but I've since decided to make the first measure a full one with the beginning notes at the end, and also make do without some of those double bass grace notes.

--Marcus
2 years ago
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#5249
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Hello Marcus,

To answer the first question, these first few notes at the end of the first measure are a very common feature of all sorts of music, not just classical.
E.g. many Irish jigs begin with a note before the main down beat.
They're often referred to as "pickup notes" or, more correctly, an anacrusis.

A MIDI file is normally made with the first bar set with the correct time signature, in this case of 2/4, and the pickup notes are added at the end of that measure.
What one can do, to avoid a long pause, is to set the tempo initially, to a faster one at Measure:Beat:Tick - "001:01:000" and then add the correct tempo (80?) at the appropriate point within the measure 001:02:240 (assuming 480 TPQN)

See attached file anacrusis.jpg

Alternately, one can make the first measure just 1/8 and the second measure 2/4.

As to the Contrabass, this is what I'd do: see GraceNotes.jpg.

Hope that helps?

JohnG.
2 years ago
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#5243
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Marcus,

No problem.

Aggravated?? Why on earth? I'm not aware of anything that you might have said that might have caused any aggravation.

Best of luck with your sequencing. Years ago, I'd got a few scores thinking I might try and do something, but I never got around to anything. That's aggravating. Me aggravating myself!!

Geoff
2 years ago
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#5242
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Hi Geoff,

Yeah, I figured something like that might be the case. I was just double-checking.

I hope I didn't aggravate you in any size, shape, or form. Sometimes it's hard to tell emotions just by reading the post in the absence of emoticons.

Thank you,

Marcus
2 years ago
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#5241
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Hello Marcus,

I don't think that midi knows about a partial bar, and you may need to use a full bar and start with a rest of appropriate length. That is, in effect, what the music is doing anyway. Otherwise you'd need to use a different time sig for the first bar, then set 2/4 at the start of the next bar, and see what that does. But, why didn't the composer do that? Is there a difference?

As for the grace notes, there may be a complication if there is a difference between what Anvil will allow you to enter, and what midi will accept. Certainly midi can accept grace notes, although they may need to be 'tweaked' into the data after other things are done, and certainly after any Quantize has been done. You might need to adjust the midi note resolution if it will not initially accept the notes (will they end up as 16th, or 32nd, or less ?). When I've tried to play something into midi to record, I end up with a mass of such notes. I've looked at some of the pieces in the 'Classics in Sequence' book I mentioned before, and there are grace notes there, although not quite as small as you've got here, but the only comment in the notes is that they need to be added afterwards, esp after Quantize is done, so any problem is just the problem of getting them in.

Do remember. Composers certainly take liberties with the score, and performers will do likewise for 'artistic' purposes. Why should you be different?

Geoff
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