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The MIDI Forum

  Saturday, 12 June 2021
  12 Replies
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Lots of reasons why but why make this post longer than it needs to be???

I have a Roland XV2020 that I used when I experimented with midi guitar. I very much like the existing sounds it can produce. I learned a lot about the things in midi that applied to midi guitar and not much else. What I want to do is take an existing midi file (cover song) and with some sort of midi player/editor be able to play this file through my XV2020 and be able to access all of the available internal patches. Typically, this would mean reassigning all of the instruments. Is this possible? I've tried to understand this by reading the Roland manual but I just don't have the insight. I can do this with General Midi patches when using IOS apps like Cubasis and Sweet Midi but these are either free or inexpensive apps and I suspect that if it is possible, I may need to purchase a fairly expensive app. That would be okay but I don't want to take the leap only to find that it can't be done.
more than a month ago
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#9300
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You don't need an expensive sequencer to do what you want.
Even free sequencers generally will do what you need.
Mike.
more than a month ago
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#9301
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The ones I have tried will not. I want to be able to access the patches that are not General Midi and I think that means that my instrument selection will require Bank/Patch select or maybe the MSB, LSB and Program number unless there is something that can be installed for my XV2020. I just don’t know enough to determine what it is I’m looking for when I review the specs of an app.
more than a month ago
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#9303
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Try Anvil Studio or Sekaiju as examples, they will let you do what you require.
more than a month ago
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#9304
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Hello Mark,

Should be possible.

I note there is a special manual for this device regarding accessing the SVX (?) sound facilities via MIDI - which I guess is part of what you want to do.

One thing you might try, which would help you proceed?

Post a midi file here (attachment) that you would like to modify (i.e. change the patches). As well as the original file, give notes as to which Tracks/Instruments you would like to change, and to what. If you're changing GM sounds (PC command ONLY) to the special sounds that may require three midi commands (i.e. Bank Select MSB, Bank Select LSB and then PC (Progam Change) you'll need to give the correct numbers (as per your manual). You could get the amended file back, which you could try on your device (I for example do not have a XV-2020 - my Korg NS5R might respond to the same commands but it may not make the right noises ??).

This will tell you that it IS possible to do what you want.

Then it's just a matter of finding the software, and getting used to the actual detail of manipulating a midi file.

Geoff
more than a month ago
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#9306
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Geoff, I read some of the Anvil Studio’s tutorial and the way they describe being able to set the Bank Select, MSB and LSB makes me think this will work. I was hoping to find something that would allow me to use my iPad in IOS. I have a decent Windows desktop and I suppose I could buy a Windows laptop. I was hoping to walk away from from Windows but I haven’t totally gone over to the dark side yet. I totally get what your saying about the sounds not being right with a different synth as I’ve read that Roland’s patch select is kinda unique. I really like the Roland sounds and one of the main things I’m trying to do here is remove the cheesy factor from the instruments while I use midi files to practice playing playing my bass. …and then, I’d like to bring these files with me when my band gets together for practice to help us learn a new tune.

I’ve worked as a luthier and musical instrument repair guy for over twenty years in a music store and all the while with music lessons going on in other rooms. Never once did I witness teachers making use of midi files to help students learn a new song. It just seems like a no-brainer.

Thanks everyone for helping this newbie
more than a month ago
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#9308
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Hello Mark,

To update the earlier comments, I've downloaded the Owner's Manual for this device which has substantial info about the Midi implementation.

Firstly, I note that the SRX stuff relates to the expansion cards, not the main unit, so this may not apply.

I note that the main (accessible) sounds are listed as GM, but these sounds are actually structured as GS, i.e. they are accessed using LSB and PC with a fixed MSB. There are also a number of non-standard banks (User and Preset A, B, C and D) but I see no indication of how these are selected via Midi. Maybe I need to read the complete manual to see if this is possible, but it may not be.

Which sounds were you hoping to be able to use?

Of course, even if it is not possible to access sounds in the usual way, there might be options using SysEx, which could still be used within a SMF (Standard Midi File), just a little more complicated.

Geoff
more than a month ago
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#9309
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It looks as though these options need to be purchased as an add-on - which is okay. The standard GSwavetable synth is the only port available in the free software. I've sent an email to Anvil asking if the cost includes the ability to install on both a desktop and a laptop as it doesn't mention this on the website. Looking at the options for add-ons, theres a $59 option that seems to meet my needs but I don't want to pay it twice. Anvil seems to have good reviews but the purchase process is a bit less mainstream in design which is okay by me. I open to other purchase options if there are any suggestions. Its been a number of years since I worked with midi at all but some of it is beginning to sound familiar again.
more than a month ago
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#9310
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I don't have a XV2020, and never used one, but I know that Roland provides a Patch Definitions file for several Roland products and 3rd party DAW applications:

https://www.roland.com/us/support/patch_script_builder/

I've verified that XV2020 is included. And the supported DAW apps are: Cakewalk, Sonar, Cubase (Mac and PC), Digital Performer (Mac OS X) and ProTools (Mac OS X).

Cakewalk by BandLab (Windows) is free, so you may only need to invest some time trying it and checking if it suits your needs:

https://www.bandlab.com/products/cakewalk
more than a month ago
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#9324
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The standard version (free) of Anvil Studio, I'm pretty sure, will let you do Bank Select MSB, Bank Select LSB, Program Changes and add them to a MIDI file.
I'm pretty sure you don't need any of the expansion packs for those basic MIDI facilities. Try it.
I have the full version which lets me add multiple audio tracks and work with VST instruments and effects, so I can't tell anymore if I'm right.
However, the Pro-mix Accessory allows one to use and create/edit patch libaries.

I have a much older Roland SC-8850 which works in the same (to me) somewhat strange way!
more than a month ago
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#9348
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Hey Geoff, I think at this time the whole pursuit is a failure unless I can use my ipad. The last time I used the XV2020 was playing midi guitar and the interface was a very non-standard Axon AX100. I don't even remember if I was able to navigate to the non-GM patches as typically, I'd just turn the controls on the XV2020 and I was also only ever playing one part at a time. I now find out that the last driver for the XV2020 was for Windows 2000 and XP. These drivers will not work with any PC Windows 7 or higher. There are no Windows 10 drivers for the XV2020 and the two websites I found claiming to have one were scams.

It may be that these other banks aren't selectable via midi. I'm not overly midi literate. The Roland manual assumes an awful lot about the user... In the appendix It says the Bank Select is Control Number 0 and 32 MSBs, LSBs, and Program Numbers and I just assumed that that is normal serial "midi language" that travels over midi cables.

I have a couple basic IOS apps that'll allow me to use GM via midi bluetooth. I think it might be geezer logic making me want to use the XV2020 - I like the sounds but in the many years that new apps and new tech have surfaced, I probably could get some really great tones from these new apps without needing to lug around this sound module. Thanks for the help.
more than a month ago
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#9349
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It may be that these other banks aren't selectable via midi.

I believe the Roland XV-2020 sounds are selectable via MIDI Bank and Program Change messages, but I've had difficulty finding an iPad MIDI sequencer app that I can confirm supports Bank and Program Change messages.

The Roland XV-2020 support page has multiple documents. The link "Selecting SRX Expansion Sounds via MIDI" leads to a document that is actually titled "Selecting Internal and SRX-Series Sounds Via MIDI". This document explains how to map the numbered list of sounds in the manuals to MIDI Bank MSB, Bank LSB, and Program Change values. The section specific to the XV-2020 is on page 9.

I did some searching for an iPad MIDI Sequencer that I could confirm supported Bank and Program Change messages via screenshots or a manual. It seems music sequencer apps are geared toward making sounds with the iPad and not geared toward controlling external devices that create sounds. And a MIDI player app I found seems geared toward playing General MIDI sounds and doesn't seem to have a way to enter the Bank messages. I don't have an iPad or iPhone so I can't try out apps to help find one to recommend. I hope another iPad user can come along with an app recommendation for you.
more than a month ago
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#9353
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After searching again, I found a MIDI sequencer app Xequence 2 ($13.99).

After you import a MIDI file, I think it will look something like this picture (a screenshot of Xequence 1 from this post on Audiobus Forum). It appears the diamonds represent the MIDI Bank and Program Change messages. To edit them, the Xequence 2 manual section about Program Change and Bank Select says:
To edit an already existing program change, just double-tap it as you would a regular clip, or with the program change selected, tap the bottom-right "Edit" button.
[...]
In the dialog, enter the program number, and the bank number. You can either enter the full bank number (MSB and LSB combined), or MSB and LSB separately.

If you want more feedback from Xequence 2 users before committing to a purchase, perhaps posting on that Audiobus fourm might be helpful. Here is a thread about Xequence 2: Xequence 2 is now available! or maybe post a new thread. Also, maybe the users there could recommend other appropriate apps.
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