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The MIDI Forum

  Friday, 07 October 2022
  9 Replies
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Hi Guys - suggestion appreciated !!:)
I've just bought a 'Thriller - Michael Jackson' Mid file and it is very good.
I usually do extensive editing of bought files to sound best on my Merish2 Midifile player. (Whilst never using Sysex)
I bought the file as 'for most keyboards and devices'.

Most people know the song - it starts with sound effects. After head scratching and reading up on Sysex - think I've fathomed how its setup. I knew Sweet FA about Sysex before this !
The effects are on channel 11.
The commands are :
Channel 1 : Sysex 41 10 42 12 40 1A 15 02 0F F7
Channel 11 : Program Change 57.
The sysex message is Roland prefix, so my Merish responds to Roland format, so I guess the soundcard is Roland message friendly.
I have looked up a Roland Sound Canvas manual - the sysex message 40 1A is Patch Parameter, Channnel 11, 15 is Rhythm Part, 02 is MAP Drumset 2.
So Channel 11 is configured for Drumset 2 by this sysex command.
Then Programme 57 for drumset 2 is the Special Effects sounds.
I think that's right ?

Question
So - as the special effects are only needed at the start of the song - how do I reset the channel out of Drumset 2 so I can later use it for eg a Synth using a normal programme number and notes ?
Just a Programme change doesn't seem to work as its stuck in Drumset 2.

Many thanks !
Andrew set the type of the post as  Technical Question — 4 months ago
4 months ago
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#16175
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Sounds like your device has been set so that the default settings for Ch 10 and 11 are drums. This will be part of the setup for your device (nothing to do with MIDI). However, there might be a SYSEX way of doing it, need to check the manual? I guess that you need to keep 10 for drums, but change 11 to normal instruments.

This is ch 10 and 11 on the range of 1 to 16, which as midi data would be Ch 9 and 10.

Maybe the GS system reset would do this, but the device setting might override it? The system reset would do all channels, but this should not be a problem if this command is at the very start of the midi file?

Does the software you're using to play the midi file allow you to change the mdi data. The SynthFont system that I use certainly does.

Geoff
4 months ago
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#16176
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You say there';s a PC (Program Change) command in the midi data. Setting 57. Trumpet in GM. Would that number be correct for the instrument that you feel should be set? Before this, is there a Bank Select command, or maybe even just the first part (B0, 00) for Bank Select MSB. If your device (incl a virtual one) support BS, then the value set may be selecting the channel type (0 = normal sound, 64 = SFX voice, 126 is SFX drums, 127 is Std Drum Kit). So BA, 00, 7F would be setting Ch 11 to Drums. Change the 7F to 00 to set to normal voices.

Geoff
4 months ago
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#16180
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Just issue Bank Select MSB and LSB messages to zero before the Program Change inserted after the drum notes.
That will, in effect, switch off the channel assignment to percussion.
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Using Bank Select to switch to drums works only with GM2 or XG.

In this GS file, to switch the channel back to instruments, reset that setting: 41 10 42 12 40 1A 15 00 11 F7
4 months ago
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#16184
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Just checked my SC8850 manual, it looks like you're correct, Clemens.
Ignore my previous message.
4 months ago
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#16186
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Geoff, John, Clemens.
Many thanks for responding all of you.
In order of replies
Geoff : The default of the device is channel 10 drums, all other channels are 'nomal' - ie assigned to voices via Program change.
This midi file is the first one I've had that has changed an extra track to percussion.
That was via the Sysex.
The sysex command on its own produces a second drumset to channel 11.
The Program Change to 57 (Trumpet) on channel 11 immediately after changes the drumset 2 to special effects.
Editor - yes I use XGWorks (!!). Very clunky but I like it as I can see every command that the midi stream is sending. I plug this (via midi interface) into the midi in on the Merish.
Then I play and edit the song and hear the Merish output. I edit the lyrics a lot to add cues and counts in for me during performance.
Once all is great I save the 'Mastered' midi and put it on the Merish SD memory stick for playing live.
Your 2nd post - no there are no Bank Select commands in this file. It seems to do the job via the sysex route.

John G and Clemens :
Between you, you have sussed out the solution. I tried putting a new sysex command as per your post Clemens and it worked ! This solution was staring me in the face - 00 to reset it from 02.
I did it part way through the effects and they changed to piano (default voice 1)
Then did Program Change 12 and got Vibraphone on subsequent notes.

Many thanks all of you - solved

I need to learn more about sysex and also MSBs and LSBs. It's a massive subject !

FYI I cheated on the sysex command. I copied and pasted the original sysex to a later measure and changed the 02 to 00. It worked.

I've just realised I didn't change the checksum (you said 11)
It did it anyway - so maybe my device ignores checksums.

Look up the Merish midi player - they are very good for live playing midi files. They should be at about £1,400 ! I have the Merish 2.
Documentation is crap - just the regular patch list plus ones with CC00 variants. A sort of enhanced GM ? Not a mention of Sysex !!

Thanks again - Andy
4 months ago
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#16189
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Glad you solved the problem, Andy.

Copying and pasting is NOT cheating, it's the normal way (in my view) of making sure you get something correct. :-)
For example, copying musical phrases from one measure to another and then altering individual notes. It just saves so much time.

Welcome to the club.
I've used XGworks since version 2 that came with my SW1000-XG sound card back in the mid 90's.
Upgraded to v3, then managed to find a copy of XGworks ST, and finally found a copy of SOL2.
I still use it/them for detailed editing. Nothing else like it for editing XG SysEx commands.
3 months ago
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#16192
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John G
My XG Works is V3. After what you said about ST and SOL2 I did a search and found a lot of detail and history on Midi Tutorial site.
I think you created that site ?
I've read a lot of your stuff on there and learnt a lot - many thanks for the valuable lessons.
However - I am going to stick with V3. For one I am not using Yamaha XG, second V3 works fine on 2 PCs at home both with Windows 10, latest updates.
V3 does me a good job - it ain't broke so I ain't fixing it !
Just found the Master Volume sysex command - wow that will be a bonus. To get my performance files all 'balanced' in overall volume I used to fiddle with each channel vol or expression - sometimes 16 of them.
Now one sysex command can do that !
Best regards, Andy
3 months ago
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#16197
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Hi Andy,

Yes, I can confirm that v3 has pretty well everything you need for file editing.
The one thing that SOL2 has is the SY50XG VST synth which, I find, is useful sometimes.

Yes, the site is mine and I wrote all the tutorials except the historical section on XGworks and its successors which were written by Geir, aka Henry.
My pleasure, so pleased you found it useful.

It's well worth exploring the complete MIDI 1 specification that's here in the "Specs" section.
Also the GM2 spec is a good place to find more about "CC's", etc.

JohnG.
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